Cuban, Black, Gay: An Interview with Tomas Fernandez-Robaina (2003)

Tomas Fernandez-Robaina is a researcher at la Biblioteca Nacional Jose Marti in Havana, Cuba. He is also a prolific writer and has written extensively on AfroCuban issues including the book “El Negro en Cuba 1900-1958: Apuntes Para la Historia de la Lucha Contra la Discriminacion Racial (The Blacks in Cuba 1900-1958: Notes on the History of the Struggle Against Racial Discrimination). Tomas is also Asesor (advisor or professor) of the Fundacion Ortiz (Ortiz Foundation) and a member of UNEAC (Cuban National Writers Union) and of the Cuban National Committee on Slave Routes.

I became acquainted with Tomas in 1999 while he conducted research at the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture in New York City. We broke bread on occasion and talked about the similarities and differences in black gay cultures in Cuba and the United States. Tomas is a warm, friendly man, whose intellect and humor shines through everything. He is also a revolutionary, and I’m glad to have him as a friend.

Steven G. Fullwood: I’ve heard Cuba and the history of its treatment of gays and lesbians is abominable. In 1965, gays were labeled “counter-revolutionary,” and sent to forced labor camps. Then, in 1980, hundreds of Cuban gays were again labeled “counter-revolutionary,” and exiled. How have things changed for gays and lesbians, or have they?

Tomas Fernandez Robaina: The gay fight for social space has been difficult and is a very quiet one. I had a conversation with a friend in the 1970′s, when the official policy against gays was strong, and he was optimistic. He told me that there are more gays becoming visible and that the government will have to reckon with the growing population. Similar to what happened with blacks in South Africa, the Cuban government will have to decide how they will deal with gays, as either threats or potential labor force. Cuba has been since the colonial times a very “machista” (macho) country. There were no spaces for blacks and mulattos, and less for homosexuals. Homosexuals were tolerated in those areas where the marginalized people used to work, and to live. Those who played the roll of active, I mean that used to act as a real man, had less problem that those who were very female in their ways of walking, speaking, and dressing.

SGF: In regard to rigid notions of masculinity in the United States, Cuban machismo seems less concerned with sexual relations between men, than with traditional gender roles. How do you see Cuban machismo versus American masculinity in regards to sexuality?

TFR: Cuban machismo requires that men play traditional male roles in sexual, social and political environments. Particularly in the sexual role, the man must be “active” role. If he’s thought to be “passive,” then he will not be considered a “real” man” by popular opinion. These concepts are manipulated and sometimes used by people who have different ideas about homosexuality.

SGF: What do you mean?

TFR: For some Cubans, whatever a man does sexually, regardless of it being passive or active, he may be considered as a “maricon.” In fact, the word “maricon” is used in a very pejorative way. It is a common term used more in the older language. When [gays] talk about the issue, we use the word “homosexual.” So a man could have and can have sex relation with a gay, and he would not be is not considered gay by others, if he plays the role of a “real” man. What I mean by that is he would act “male,” the one who penetrates, and act in accordance as if he were with a female. Of course now people that are thinking the opposite. I feel that’s because of the Eurocentric conceptions about sexuality. For me was a revelation when I saw an African documentary about homosexuality. The men interviewed expressed that they acted with the gays in the same way that they did with their wives and girlfriends. I suspect that in other cultures bisexuality is more accepted and the sexual relations with gays are not so repressed like in our societies and cultures.

SGF: Is there is a “gay subculture” in Cuba? If so, what are the parallels with gay culture in the United States, specifically, black gay culture?

TFR: I wouldn’t say that there is a gay subculture. We, at least the majority, don’t identify like gays do in the United States. We don’t identify ourselves as a separate or different group. The black gays in Cuba have had to face the discrimination against blacks, and the general view of the black masculinity. Cuban society used to see and tolerate white homosexuals. During the carnivals, many blacks homosexual danced in some groups called “comparsas,” where they dressed like women.

SGF: Can you speak more about the conditions of blacks, specifically black gays in Cuba?

TFR: It is impossible to express a generalization about the more and the less tolerance about black gays considering the general tolerance about the gays in Cuba. It is hard to change the way of thinking, and there are white racist gays, and black racist gays that do not like and do not want to have sexual relation with black gays or men. At the same time the white gays attraction for black men is very visible. It is harder for me to gauge what the process is among lesbians.

SGF: Where does your loyalty lie with “black” or “gay” or neither?

TFR: Neither. My father was black, my mother was white, I am a “mulato almos blanco,” as we say in “Cuba a blanco capirro.” It simply means that I can cross racial lines easily, at least in Cuba where I have not being discriminated as a black person or a “mulato” socially. However I have been discriminated as a gay male, and also for my social origin. I was born in a popular sectos (area) of my society, and before and after 1959, I have felt the reaction of some people when they knew where I was born. But most of these things have changed since 1959, but there will always have persons who are slow to change. Back then life in Cuba was very hard for gays and lesbians. Many decided to leave the country, others stayed and faced the bad situation. I tried to show that to be a gay was not a reason to be discriminated, sexually and politically. Virgilio Pinera, Jose Lezama Lima, Rene Ariza, Reinaldo Arenas had a lot of problems because of their sexual orientation. Two of them died in Cuba, and the other two abroad. Now things are quite different. Anton Arrufat is the best example to show. For many years he could have a public intellectual life, but he studied at the university during that time and when Dr. Armando Hart was the Minister of Culture, the first important change toward the gays in Cuba took place. Arrfat’s books have been published, and he is one of National Literature treasures. I continue working at the National Library Jose Marti, and also at the University of Havane as an Adjunt Professor at the Communication Faculty and also at Philology Faculty.

But of course, there are always people whose minds do not want to change, but they are less every day that means that we must continue our work, trying of bettering our society in the understanding of the respect toward the sexual orientation, and toward a deeper knowledge of the history and present situation of the blacks Cubans.

SGF: Tell me about some of the words used in relation to gay life: “bugarrones,” “maricones,” “locas,” and “entendidos.”

TFR: “Bugarron” is a male in the role of the traditional man, and is defined by the sexual role as the active, or aggressor. “Maricon” is the common word that has a strong pejorative meaning in Cuban language; it defines those men who like to be sexually passive and, in some instances, it defines a sexual role, like “bugarrones.” When you want to insult a man, in a very harsh manner, you call him a “maricon.” “Loca” is a man that is very effeminate. “Entendido” is defined as a gay man who can be a “loca” or “maricon,” but is inconspicuous. You know him if you are, in the family, so to speak, but to an outsider, they would not think he was gay. There is a book by Reinaldo Arenas called “El Color del Verano” (“The Color of the Summer”) that discusses these definitions in a satiric way.

SGF: How do older gay men and lesbians view and treat younger gay men and lesbians?

TRF: The relation between old and young gays is very complex at the present. But in general you can see more young gays groups speaking, going out to dance, that mix groups of old and young gays. Sometimes when you see young and old gays together the elder is a tourist. Of course, there are young Cuban gays with normal relations with older Cuban gays, but in general young gays use to get together with gays of their same generations. The same thing happens with the lesbians who are now more visible now than they were in the past. In general older gays and lesbians enjoy having relations with younger men and women, or young gays.

For many years there was repression, and the older and younger gays of that period experienced the same thing. Because of the silent internal resistance to gay repression, the vocal criticism of Cuban gays abroad, and the economic crisis, among other issues, the policy against Gays began to change. I, like many other gays, for many years could not attend the University of Havana. It’s wonderful to see that now the University is more tolerant to gay students. Gay literature and gay writers are now being studied in the classroom and students can write their dissertations about them. Ten years ago, I wouldn’t have thought it possible but we can’t forget the Resolution of the Congress of Culture and Education in 1971, a policy that limited the potential of homosexuals to be more visible and actualized in Cuban culture and society.

SGF: Being both black and homo in the United States is extremely challenging. It took me years to figure out who I was and what I was; much of which I couldn’t use – stuff like masculinity and racial unity at the expense of telling my truth. Those identities put a ceiling on my potential as a spiritual being. How is it for you?

TFR: Since I was a boy I related “black” with masculinity, because most of the men I saw their [complexion] very “black.” When I grew up and began to see black “homosexuals,” it was hard for me; probably because I idealized masculinity with my vision of black men. I think that among black families this same perception is prevalent.

SGF: Is there such as thing as being “out” in Cuba?

TFR: Yes, but we don’t have an expression for it. We used to say that, “loca abierta, declarada” (everybody knows) but because of the inferences of the growing gay visibility in Cuba, we don’t use it as much. In fact we are beginning to use that phrase ?”in the closet” to name the same phenomenon. We used to say that is a tapinado, or is he “entendid” for homosexual men who weren’t effeminate. Now we use the expression “esta en el closet” or “esta fuera del closet”? Some homosexuals are discreet, and others are very open.

It is necessary to mention the general economic crisis, which makes many young men, and women sell their bodies as goods. Now the sex market has expanded to include not only women for men, but also women for women, men for gays, gays for gays. Although this has always existed, it is more visible now.

SGF: In “Machos, Maricones, and Gays: Cuba and Homosexuality,” author Ian Lumsden states: “The current situation of Cuban gays is much more oppressive than the Cuban government is willing to acknowledge. Yet it is also much less restricted than it was a decade ago and much better than many gays and lesbians are willing to concede in public.” What do you think about his statement?

RF: I think it’s true, but it is complicated. We don’t have any gay organizations. We don’t see Cuban television dealing with gay issues in any serious way. In the literature some writers, gay and straight, have written about gay life, and about gay social problems, but that doesn’t mean that all these appear generally in Cuban books, magazines or newspapers. In regards to movies, “Fresa y Chocolate” (“Strawberry and Chocolate”) was an exception. In the documentary, some Cuban and foreign filmmakers have made wonderful contributions, but not all these films have been widely exhibited. Some of them, for example “Mariposas en el Andamio,” (“Butterflies on the Scaffold”) would help change general ideas that many people have about gays – in particular ideas about drag queens or transvestites.

A revolution means a process of movement, always changing in a good or wrong direction, but always in movement. It is not hard to recognize the positive changes toward homosexuality that have taken in Cuba. Of course, we would like these changes deeper, but what we have now can be considered as the beginning of better times for the gay Cuban community. Now gay students and workers can express, talk and show openly their homosexuality, if they do it in an appropriate manner meaning not being lewd or offensive. Today gay students have the possibilities of studying at the university. There are not many places where to see transvestites shows, as it used to be two years before, but there still, only a few, but every week there special parties, where most of the gays go to dance and drink, but it is something underground. Now Cuban and foreign gay writers and artists are studied at the university. It’s almost unbelievable to see how the gay life, or the visibility of gay people, has increased in Cuba in the last ten years. Little by little, step by step, we are getting space in the rooms, and our right to be different. But of course, we still have a long way to go.

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